Anyone tried running colossus on 175W metal halide lamp? - Oozing Goo - The Lava Lamp Syndicate2024-03-29T01:41:28Zhttps://oozinggoo.ning.com/forum/topics/anyone-tried-running-colossus?id=1566398%3ATopic%3A137770&feed=yes&xn_auth=noYeah, not all light sources c…tag:oozinggoo.ning.com,2010-04-03:1566398:Comment:1387182010-04-03T11:12:32.925ZMagicLamphttps://oozinggoo.ning.com/profile/MagicLamp
Yeah, not all light sources can get hot enough without destroying themselves first, though ;-)<br />
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I don't care if LEDs also radiate heat well at 200, 500 or 2500 C, if the plastic will have molten long before that, and the junction will be FUBAR even before ;-)
Yeah, not all light sources can get hot enough without destroying themselves first, though ;-)<br />
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I don't care if LEDs also radiate heat well at 200, 500 or 2500 C, if the plastic will have molten long before that, and the junction will be FUBAR even before ;-) LEDs are notorious at expelli…tag:oozinggoo.ning.com,2010-04-01:1566398:Comment:1384512010-04-01T12:25:31.641ZPercolationhttps://oozinggoo.ning.com/profile/Percolation
LEDs are notorious at expelling heat as a radiant energy. The heat generated is spread out to a heat sink that is naturally or fan cooled depending on power. Just like computer processors, they can not handle high temperature.<br />
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MH and incandescent lamps are both good at sending out heat as radiant energy. Filament is yellow to bright yellow hot.<br />
HID quartz glass capsule gives off visible light, in addition to a large amount of radiant heat from bright-orange glowing hot quarts glass.<br />
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Anything…
LEDs are notorious at expelling heat as a radiant energy. The heat generated is spread out to a heat sink that is naturally or fan cooled depending on power. Just like computer processors, they can not handle high temperature.<br />
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MH and incandescent lamps are both good at sending out heat as radiant energy. Filament is yellow to bright yellow hot.<br />
HID quartz glass capsule gives off visible light, in addition to a large amount of radiant heat from bright-orange glowing hot quarts glass.<br />
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Anything will radiate heat fine as long as they get hot enough. Still, the incandescent will…tag:oozinggoo.ning.com,2010-03-31:1566398:Comment:1383532010-03-31T10:27:43.201ZMagicLamphttps://oozinggoo.ning.com/profile/MagicLamp
Still, the incandescent will output more heat than the MH even at the low end of the utility voltage, and what's more, most of it will be absorbed by the globe rather than shine through it.<br />
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This also raises other questions such as how efficient the MH is at radiating heat away from itself (e.g. LEDs are notoriously bad at radiating heat, and this results in them internally overheating rather than heating their surroundings).<br />
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The bottom line once again is that there is no advantage in using…
Still, the incandescent will output more heat than the MH even at the low end of the utility voltage, and what's more, most of it will be absorbed by the globe rather than shine through it.<br />
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This also raises other questions such as how efficient the MH is at radiating heat away from itself (e.g. LEDs are notoriously bad at radiating heat, and this results in them internally overheating rather than heating their surroundings).<br />
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The bottom line once again is that there is no advantage in using MHs or other "efficient" forms of lighting with lava lamps: lava lamps are one of the few(?) applications where you actually WANT the heat along with the light, and the good old incandescent offers both in a convenient and resilient package.<br />
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Furthermore, most other kinds of lamps would just die prematurely if forced to operate in a closed fixture with their surrounding ambient temp getting over 50 C, while an incandescent just shrugs it off, as it has practically zero airflow requirements and can work even inside an oven. Given 200W 120v lamp, using t…tag:oozinggoo.ning.com,2010-03-31:1566398:Comment:1383502010-03-31T09:45:06.389ZPercolationhttps://oozinggoo.ning.com/profile/Percolation
Given 200W 120v lamp, using the v^1.6 formula, used by lighting engineers, the lamp is 184W @ 114v and 216W @126v<br />
So, the lamp can vary in output as much as 17% within the +/- 5% tolerance allowed by utility. This doesn't prevent the lava from working does it?<br />
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Now, assume 175W MH is burning 175W. It will get the same amount of heat to the globe, except the unabsorbed energy radiating out as visible light.<br />
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Remember that even with incandescent light, some of its power is actually escaping as…
Given 200W 120v lamp, using the v^1.6 formula, used by lighting engineers, the lamp is 184W @ 114v and 216W @126v<br />
So, the lamp can vary in output as much as 17% within the +/- 5% tolerance allowed by utility. This doesn't prevent the lava from working does it?<br />
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Now, assume 175W MH is burning 175W. It will get the same amount of heat to the globe, except the unabsorbed energy radiating out as visible light.<br />
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Remember that even with incandescent light, some of its power is actually escaping as near IR and IR light. Yeah, I got efficacy swapped…tag:oozinggoo.ning.com,2010-03-31:1566398:Comment:1383482010-03-31T08:37:44.544ZMagicLamphttps://oozinggoo.ning.com/profile/MagicLamp
Yeah, I got efficacy swapped with efficiency XD<br />
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<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy#Lighting_efficiency" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy#Lighting_efficiency</a><br />
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The bottom line is that he wouldn't heat his globe any better with a MH halide lamp, quite the opposite. He'd heat it less while flooding it with a garish light, which would also degrade the wax as fast as sunlight.
Yeah, I got efficacy swapped with efficiency XD<br />
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<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy#Lighting_efficiency" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy#Lighting_efficiency</a><br />
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The bottom line is that he wouldn't heat his globe any better with a MH halide lamp, quite the opposite. He'd heat it less while flooding it with a garish light, which would also degrade the wax as fast as sunlight. The efficiency depends on whe…tag:oozinggoo.ning.com,2010-03-31:1566398:Comment:1383282010-03-31T00:31:30.146ZPercolationhttps://oozinggoo.ning.com/profile/Percolation
The efficiency depends on where you set the cut-off spectrum. If you set it 200nm to 10,000nm then, then incandescent is close to 100%, sans heat leaving through the base by conduction.<br />
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Visible light does add heat, so the only difference should be total radiant wattage minus whatever is escaping the globe as visible light without being absorbed.<br />
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"luminous efficacy" can not be expressed as a percentage, because lumen is objective, but human perception weighed unit. 10W of optical energy at…
The efficiency depends on where you set the cut-off spectrum. If you set it 200nm to 10,000nm then, then incandescent is close to 100%, sans heat leaving through the base by conduction.<br />
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Visible light does add heat, so the only difference should be total radiant wattage minus whatever is escaping the globe as visible light without being absorbed.<br />
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"luminous efficacy" can not be expressed as a percentage, because lumen is objective, but human perception weighed unit. 10W of optical energy at green has a much higher lumen rating than that of same power of deep violet (just at the shortest edge of visible spectrum) or deep red (longest wavelength of visible light.<br />
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Also, incandescent lamp's wattage is exponentially affected by line voltage, which according to wiki is v^1.6 To be even more precise, MH l…tag:oozinggoo.ning.com,2010-03-30:1566398:Comment:1382072010-03-30T09:30:10.098ZMagicLamphttps://oozinggoo.ning.com/profile/MagicLamp
To be even more precise, MH lamps have an overall luminous efficacy of 9-17%. This means that "only" 83-91% of their power will become heat, while an incandescent is typically less than 3% efficient, and more than 97% of its rated power is actually radiated as heat (IR radiation).<br />
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So by substituting a 175W MH for a 200W incandescent, you're only leaving 145-160W of "pure heat" for the lamp to work with...dunno if that would be enough, since it's basically 20-25% less power to work with than…
To be even more precise, MH lamps have an overall luminous efficacy of 9-17%. This means that "only" 83-91% of their power will become heat, while an incandescent is typically less than 3% efficient, and more than 97% of its rated power is actually radiated as heat (IR radiation).<br />
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So by substituting a 175W MH for a 200W incandescent, you're only leaving 145-160W of "pure heat" for the lamp to work with...dunno if that would be enough, since it's basically 20-25% less power to work with than with an incandescent (with much more light output though).<br />
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On a positive note, you'd have about 4-5 times more light output for less wattage....so your lava lamp would look ultra-bright without overheating. Sadly, this wouldn't make it flow better (and it could possibly degrade the wax very quickly).<br />
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Source: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy#Lighting_efficiency" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy#Lighting_efficiency</a> Time for some quick physics a…tag:oozinggoo.ning.com,2010-03-29:1566398:Comment:1380182010-03-29T08:30:24.251ZMagicLamphttps://oozinggoo.ning.com/profile/MagicLamp
Time for some quick physics and thermodynamics ;-)<br />
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Q: What is keeping the lava flowing?<br />
A: Heat is.<br />
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Q: What do all forms of energy eventually degrade to?<br />
A: Heat.<br />
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Q: How much % of the energy of a pure heater would eventually go into lava motion?<br />
A: 100% (barring losses from the base that don't reach the globe).<br />
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Q: How much % of the energy of a combined light/heat source would eventually go into lava motion?<br />
A: Almost all of the heat, but a good part of the energy would "escape" form the…
Time for some quick physics and thermodynamics ;-)<br />
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Q: What is keeping the lava flowing?<br />
A: Heat is.<br />
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Q: What do all forms of energy eventually degrade to?<br />
A: Heat.<br />
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Q: How much % of the energy of a pure heater would eventually go into lava motion?<br />
A: 100% (barring losses from the base that don't reach the globe).<br />
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Q: How much % of the energy of a combined light/heat source would eventually go into lava motion?<br />
A: Almost all of the heat, but a good part of the energy would "escape" form the lamp as light and other radiation that doesn't get absorbed by the wax and fluid.<br />
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Incandescent lamps are very inefficient light sources: less than 5% of their energy goes into light, the rest is heat.<br />
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If you use a more efficient lamp of the same wattage, you'll have much less heat, and even considering the amount of light and UV radiation that will eventually be trapped by the fluid and wax and converted to heat, you'll get a much minor heating effect.<br />
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The wattage on the lamp refers to the actual electrical energy expenditure, so if you could trap all of the emitted energy somehow, a 200 W MH lamp wouldn't be any different than an incandescent. Or a hot plate. Or an elecric motor. Or a 200W computer, you get the point.<br />
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Source: I'm a practicing EE. http://www.lightinguniverse.c…tag:oozinggoo.ning.com,2010-03-27:1566398:Comment:1378512010-03-27T20:47:21.016ZPercolationhttps://oozinggoo.ning.com/profile/Percolation
<a href="http://www.lightinguniverse.com/NA1/c30t-town-hall-commerical-hid-fixture_3632276.html" target="_blank">http://www.lightinguniverse.com/NA1/c30t-town-hall-commerical-hid-fixture_3632276.html</a><br />
Do these not look familiar? They've been around for decades, yep that's right, vertical MH lamps.<br />
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Again, your claim >6500K is superior is unfounded. The aquarium hobby lamps are not the common types. Most HID lamps are 3500-4100K range.
<a href="http://www.lightinguniverse.com/NA1/c30t-town-hall-commerical-hid-fixture_3632276.html" target="_blank">http://www.lightinguniverse.com/NA1/c30t-town-hall-commerical-hid-fixture_3632276.html</a><br />
Do these not look familiar? They've been around for decades, yep that's right, vertical MH lamps.<br />
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Again, your claim >6500K is superior is unfounded. The aquarium hobby lamps are not the common types. Most HID lamps are 3500-4100K range. 8 years in the hobby qualifie…tag:oozinggoo.ning.com,2010-03-27:1566398:Comment:1378282010-03-27T15:44:58.408ZKrishttps://oozinggoo.ning.com/profile/Kris
8 years in the hobby qualifies me to make that claim. There might be bulbs out now that can be run vertically. However, anything worth a dam (6.5k or higher) has to be run horizontally. For several reasons. It ensures the bulbs maximum light reaches it's destination - down. It also ensures long bulb like and accurate color rendition.<br />
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There might be some you can run vertical but for the most part - it's a waste. Your complicating something that does not need to be. Remember the term KISS? That…
8 years in the hobby qualifies me to make that claim. There might be bulbs out now that can be run vertically. However, anything worth a dam (6.5k or higher) has to be run horizontally. For several reasons. It ensures the bulbs maximum light reaches it's destination - down. It also ensures long bulb like and accurate color rendition.<br />
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There might be some you can run vertical but for the most part - it's a waste. Your complicating something that does not need to be. Remember the term KISS? That should be applied here as well as "the simplest solutions are always the best". If you have to think this hard about something, there is an easier, better solution to be had.